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April 12, 2006

Onideus Mad Hatter begs to differ with me about Flash — Reasonable people can disagree...

Picture_1bgkh

But can disagreeable people reason?

The following email was received from a reader at 1:57 a.m. this morning.

Not one word has been omitted — however, three words have been cl**ned up to conform with our Disney–approved, G-rated standards

    Dear Joseph:

    A new comment has been submitted to your weblog "bookofjoe," on the post "'The Power of Flash' — Taschen's new book is not a practical joke, it turns out."

    Comment from:

    Name: Onideus_Mad_Hatter
    Email: bookofjoe@backwater-productions.net
    URL: http://www.backwater-productions.net

    Comment:

    Flash is a disaster — always.
    No exceptions.

    D00d, yer an ignorant f***ing retard. I bet I could take ANY site that you designed and I could rebuild it EXACTLY using Flash with at least a 50% reduction in overall site size... oh wait, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESIGN... well unless you think plain text and a green rectangle is design. LOL, if it were THAT simple EVERYBODY would be a designer.
    ^_^

    The bottom line is that Flash doesn't NEED to be flashy and even if it is kinda flashy it DOES NOT have to be slow loading. Take my blog site for example: http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog/

    All the base graphics of the site take up less than 150 kilobytes... that's GOD LEVEL image encoding methodology though, mixed in with some split form, image replication and stretching techniques. So you see, Flash is like anything, with enough skill it can be done to perfection. And why use Flash? Simple, cross-compatibility. The way it looks on your system is EXACTLY the way it will look on someone else's. It takes ALL the guesswork out of building sites. And hey, for the Luddites like you, all a web designer has to do is include a plain text fall-back version, then the people using like Lynx who wish they were blind can still get all the relevant content, like on my main Backwater site:
    http://www.backwater-productions.net/

    All the old arguments are dead... search engines can now spider flash files... with the advent of Flash8 there's now precision pixel alignment (allowing you to make use of split form designs and to build perfect liquid websites)... you can directly access php files and send and receive variables between the two... 50% faster than Javascript... direct use of PNG alpha transparencies without the use of bloatcode and OS/browser detection... the ability to use JPEG image compression on imported alpha transparent PNGs... use of the On2 VP6 codec (beats the f***in s**t out of Xvid as far as retaining color quality)... alpha transparent video... the list just goes on and on.

    And again, as I said, a designer can still include a plain text fall-back version for all the "simple folk" like you who wish they could retard the Internet back to 1996.

********************

Even though I knew it would an exercise in predictability I did venture over to backwater-productions.net (the homepage is pictured up top) to see what Mr. Onideus Mad Hatter had wrought: alas, same old same old.

Slow to load (and I have a superfast internet connection) and then once I started navigating on the site and heard clicking noises each time I went to a new page and realized it wasn't earwax or crickets but, rather, sound effects he'd added, I couldn't take it any longer and departed.

Res ipsa loquitur.

April 12, 2006 at 12:01 PM | Permalink


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"You can't print it, you can't style it, you can't make it accessible and when used as this joker uses it, you can't link to individual pages."

Wow, just because Hatters site isnt on the same level as say, 2advanced, doesnt mean that flash is an inaccessible piece of wank. I dont use flash anymore, but I know enough about it to know that it has alot of pro's and little of the cons you naive flash-haters are screaming about. You all claim to be in design for decades, perhaps you should join the rest of us in the 21st century, or perhaps even just learn abit more about your "trade".

Sure flash has its issues, but you people clearly dont know what you're talking about.

Posted by: Mimic | Oct 26, 2006 11:49:16 AM


I went to the backwater website... lame. Not very imaginative so flash or not... lame.

Posted by: Jimbo | Apr 13, 2006 10:38:34 PM

God, I *love* that diaper-boy, in an effort to show what a bad-ass that he is, links to his *Care Bears site*!

He just doesn't understand design. It's not about who has the biggest alpha transparency balls. It's about creating what is appropriate for the audience and the purpose. I've worked with designers like this in the mid-90s. They always end up getting fired.

Joe, your site is perfect for your audience and your purpose. But you know that. Flash is perfect for virtually nobody for any purpose.

Joe: 2
Diaper-Boy: 0

Posted by: Waldo Jaquith | Apr 13, 2006 11:30:07 AM

Oh, man.

As it turns out, quite a _lot_ of people have probably been Web developers "since this kid was in diapers":
http://tinyurl.com/oqkwm

You really can't _buy_ entertainment like that, can you?

(Incidentally, Mr. Moulton is, _officially_, a net.kook: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/df26ded92fb2a772 )

Posted by: Daniel Rutter | Apr 13, 2006 10:58:30 AM

Now wait a minute. That doesn't sound like a Bee Gees song to me. It has such sweet sentiment. Peace and love. :)

Posted by: tina | Apr 13, 2006 8:50:31 AM

This one's for you Tina (usin Em's "Shake That Ass" for the back beat), I call it "The Pills You Take":

talk about a joke
look at you simple folk
all covered in egg yolk
rollin in poison oak
as soon as ya spoke
blowin smoke and havin a stroke
wait no, you were sniffin coke
And started to choke
that's what made you croak
As I began to poke
yer so easy to provoke
look at all the hate that I invoke
in those that are broke

penniless skill
can't pay yer bills
take another pain pill, chill
listen to Doctor Phil
must be Gods free will
as ya try and take yer fill
ya always spill and give a shrill
gives me such a thrill
watchin you fall downhill
like Jack and Jill
cause you can't stand still
here's a dollar bill
go buy a Ritalin pill
or just end it with a kill
and take a suicide pill

Posted by: Onideus_Mad_Hatter | Apr 12, 2006 11:24:29 PM

OMH

this one's for you dude!

I Started a Joke

I started a joke, which started the whole world crying,
but I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh no.

I started to cry, which started the whole world laughing,
oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.

I looked at the skies, running my hands over my eyes,
and I fell out of bed, hurting my head from things that I'd said.

Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.

I looked at the skies, running my hands over my eyes,
and I fell out of bed, hurting my head from things that I'd said.

'Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was one me.


Posted by: tina | Apr 12, 2006 10:15:43 PM

>Gee, OMH, I wanted to share your services page with somebody, but dang
>if I couldn't.

Yeah, I'm sure giving someone a link to my main site and telling them to click on the "services" button is REAL hard for someone of your...height.

>He wrote me back and said he can't see it. He's got poor eyesight, and
>the button on his browser that increases the font size just doesn't do
>anything on your Flash -- and with the font so small, he's just out of
>luck.

If one ACTUALLY had bad eye sight, they would most likely have enough intelligence to drop down to an 800x600 res...in which case that "small font" suddenly gets a WHOLE lot bigger.

>No problem, though -- he's got a backup. He's got a text-to-speech
>synthesizer that he uses sometimes. It's used by most blind internet
>users; he's not blind, but it's a nice backup. Damnest thing, though
>-- your Flash has no actual text, just graphics that look like text,
>so he couldn't read it.

Hey, Downs, next time try looking at the SOURCE CODE of the site...you'll look less STUPID that way. A text-to-speech or text only browser would work PERFECT on my main Backwater site because I included a plain text fall back version.

>As a backup, I was able to send both people links to Joe's site here.
>My first friend received a copy of the page in his e-mail, but could
>follow the links within it to other pages, thanks to Joe's permalinks.
>Thanks to his use of CSS, my second friend's browser automatically
>used his default stylesheet, so the site's text was at just the right
>size.
>
>Joe: 1
>OMH: 0

The problem you're having son is that you seem to think that my main site represents all you can do with Flash. What you FAIL to comprehend is that the kind of site you've got such a hard on for CAN be constructed using Flash and it would in fact be SUPERIOR to HTML/CSS...not to mention it would have a greater degree of cross compatibility. The question is whether or not you WANT to build sites that cater to blind people and people who WISH they were blind...personally, I'm not so much into that. I mean I'll include a FALLBACK version for "simple folk" like you who wanna party like it's 1899, but I'm not going to try and inflict your deficient views on the rest of the world.

>Design isn't making things pretty, OMH.

Actually, yes, it is:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=design

"Something designed, especially a decorative or an artistic work."

>That's a child's idea of design, the concept held by total newbies
>like you.

Oh, there it is, that "I art holier than thou" excuse for having no design skills. You're like the deficient who pisses in a can and calls it art because he has no real talent. You confuse "minimalist design" with "lack of design skills". Any halfwitted MORON can throw up some plain text, a colored rectangle and call it "minimalist", but that DOES NOT make it design. If you want to see a REAL "minimalist" DESIGN, check out this guys site:
http://www.csszengarden.com/

THAT is a "minimalist design". Joe Retards green box on solid white is NOT a design, it's deficiency...as is your failing attempt to slurp his ass for brownie points.

>Ask a home builder what's the more important aspect of design:
>structural integrity & usability, or making it pretty? Most people
>wouldn't be surprised at the answer. I think you would be.

I already know the answer, son. But I doubt that you do. Free cl00, it really isn't one or the other...only a child would think in such linear, deficient terms.

Posted by: Onideus_Mad_Hatter | Apr 12, 2006 8:24:11 PM

I love kitty cats!!!

Posted by: clifyt | Apr 12, 2006 8:09:26 PM

Oh, there ya are, talkin shit. You couldn't even post ONE link to a site you've done. LOL Oh and hey, how come no comment on the perfect liquid form? What's the matter, can't find any examples of that in any of yer lil text books?

Posted by: Onideus_Mad_Hatter | Apr 12, 2006 7:55:36 PM

You are a god.

Wow! Alpha level transparency. WITHOUT Flash!!! I can't believe you cracked it!!! Could it be that you learned how to use the DX filters on IE...I guess you are a god!!!

OMG Ponies!!!

Posted by: clifyt | Apr 12, 2006 7:44:59 PM

>I've been developing for the web for 10+ years now (as well as its
>predecesor technology)

You know...there are only two kinds of people online...those who produce...and those who run at the mouth. Now, son, unless you wanna step it the fuck up and start posting some links...yeah, yer just talkin shit. 10+ years of jabberin away and 50 cents will get ya a cup of coffee, but it's not gonna get ya anything other than that, certainly not a successful website.

>and other than maybe videos, specific tutorial
>simulations or gaming -- its worthless. Its less than worthless -- its
>actually detremental to anyone that cares about standards.

...um, hello, McFly, have you been paying attention AT ALL?! Flash is THE most cross browser, cross operating system compatible solution that exists...EVER! It doesn't really get any more "standard" than that, you dribbling idiot. 10 to 1 says in yer next post you start retarding shit off the W3C...yeah, like W3C RECOMMENDATIONS even come close to equating to cross compatibility. *snicker* You fuckin poser ass wannabe. Stick to plain text and colored rectangle like yer friend Joe, that's more yer speed, Sunshine.

>BTW Joe -- I've had several years of design courses (and actually
>taking one this semester -- my employeer pays me to take courses, so
>its stupid not to).

Of COURSE your employer PAYS you to take courses...you're too gawd damn Jesus killing STUPID to learn anything ON YOUR OWN. LOL...spoon fed "educated" types are all the same, they don't know fuck all what they didn't slurp up and regurgitate from some dribbling 5 year out of date college textbook. Oh but hey, I guess I can look on the bright side, in another 5 years or so when they start using Taschen's book in college classes across the country I can look forward to a NEW generation of ignorant droolers who simply agrees with me without thinking...instead of disagreeing with me without thinking. Really, anyway you wanna look at it, yer brand of stupid is always gonna be sellin out.

>The one thing that any COMPETENT professor has
>taught us is that design isn't showing off everything you know, but
>stopping well before you make a fool out of yourself. Your design is
>perfect. Its clean and suits its purpose.

It's real easy, innt? To try and pass off mediocrity and a lack of design as some "I art holier than thou" bullshit...bottom line though...yer just not capable of producing anything better. Oh but hey, why don't you prove me wrong?

Here's a fun lil challenge...I challenge ANYONE to try and replicate the effect of the alpha transparent rainbow I created for my new CB site:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
He, he, he...now if you actually had some REAL ability in graphic design, you would most likely be able to reverse engineer the graphic and create your own version of it...kinda like I did with the calendar on my blog:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog/story_images/1-10.png

Or, you know...you can keep talkin shit, Sunshine. Yeah, yeah why don't you just keep talkin shit, yer REAL good at that. Is that what they taught you in college? LOL

College is a fucking rest area on the road of life, if you're actually going to college to LEARN something...yeah, it's because you lack the discipline and intelligence to LEARN ON YOUR OWN.

>Backwater, however, looks
>like some eff'n idiot designed it trying to prove that his education
>wasn't wasted -- yet at the same time proving that it had been.

Sorry kiddo, but I've only got an AA degree currently and I got it AFTER I designed the Backwater site. My skill level is the product of my own determination, will, desire, experimentation, testing and resolve. I didn't use text books, I didn't take classes, I didn't outsource to someone else or retard back to cookie cutter, pre fab, template fucks like they no doubt teach kids like you to do. And unlike you I didn't start out in one thing and then start claiming it was "the best" simply because I never tried anything else. I've done it all sunshine and there was even a point where I was like you and had backwards, ignorant views of Flash. For a time I even had the idiocy to bother complying with W3C RECOMMENDATIONS:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/wwcc/histology-1/

Too bad that doesn't mean fuck all when it comes to compatibility. See unlike you I didn't just read shit out of some book and accept it as the gospel, I ACTUALLY TRIED all the different forms and flavors, experimented with them, developed them, tested their limitations and in many cases out right broke them...and at this point, Flash is the END ALL solution to web design...a point that you can't seem to argue against directly.

>My gawd that made me sick to think this guy has the balls to talk about
>others design work. Doing a google of his real name, it turns out he
>is probably either mentally challenged (and I don't think it has
>anything to do with his nom's mercury poisoning) or 12 years old.
>
>You've been trolled Joe :-)

Google diving for material now, eh? LOL, have fun with that, last I bothered to check I think I had some 100,000 or more posts archived in Google (used to be a lot more...before Deja's database was bought by Google and molested into its current form). A stupid prick like you, yeah it's REAL easy to claim you were around on the net for 10+ years...unlike you though, I actually have PROOF of my involvement and endeavors.

And hey, just to show off how bad ass I am when it comes to web design...here's a link to one of my PERFECT liquid website prototypes:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/liquid/

He, he, he...try resizing yer browser, see what happens. The only flaw is server load (unless you count the level of skill it takes to make a site like that), however if I threw in server side image caching I could pretty much eliminate that problem. Check out the code though:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/liquid/JS_source.txt

That's GOD LEVEL coding right there...hybrid PHP/Javascript that actually constructs the HTML on the fly as needed, creating a TRUE dynamic website. User moveable objects. Cross compatible PNG alpha transparencies (without the use of Flash). Javascript screen width detection along with image placement and resizing calculation, it passes data via HTTP post variables to the PHP image resizing scripts that then create new, custom sized images on the fly that are fed back client side.

Oh, oh, what up G, you can handle it. Now step the fuck up and tell us all whatchoo got. Yeah, you ain't got shit, huh? LOL...stupid fuckin poser ass wannabes. Look at how shook I got you, just pressin a few buttons. Keep steppin fool...you might just break. `, D

Posted by: Onideus_Mad_Hatter | Apr 12, 2006 7:09:24 PM

Gee, OMH, I wanted to share your services page with somebody, but dang if I couldn't.

See, I want to send this to a buddy. So I used my browser's "Mail Contents of this Page" but, since it's not HTML, it won't work.

No problem -- I can just send him a link. But, sadly, it's not possible -- the page has no unique URL.

Fine, fine -- I'll print it and mail it. Oooh...no...I can't print Flash.

That's a real conundrum right there.

I decided to share it with another friend. I sent him a link to the site, along with instructions as to how to get to the services page.

He wrote me back and said he can't see it. He's got poor eyesight, and the button on his browser that increases the font size just doesn't do anything on your Flash -- and with the font so small, he's just out of luck.

No problem, though -- he's got a backup. He's got a text-to-speech synthesizer that he uses sometimes. It's used by most blind internet users; he's not blind, but it's a nice backup. Damnest thing, though -- your Flash has no actual text, just graphics that look like text, so he couldn't read it.

As a backup, I was able to send both people links to Joe's site here. My first friend received a copy of the page in his e-mail, but could follow the links within it to other pages, thanks to Joe's permalinks. Thanks to his use of CSS, my second friend's browser automatically used his default stylesheet, so the site's text was at just the right size.

Joe: 1
OMH: 0

Design isn't making things pretty, OMH. That's a child's idea of design, the concept held by total newbies like you. Ask a home builder what's the more important aspect of design: structural integrity & usability, or making it pretty? Most people wouldn't be surprised at the answer. I think you would be.

Posted by: Waldo Jaquith | Apr 12, 2006 3:15:47 PM

"You can't print it, you can't style it, you can't make it accessible and when used as this joker uses it, you can't link to individual pages."

Amen to that Waldo!

I've been developing for the web for 10+ years now (as well as its predecesor technology) and other than maybe videos, specific tutorial simulations or gaming -- its worthless. Its less than worthless -- its actually detremental to anyone that cares about standards. I mean, back in the day, I wrote a plugin that grabs hypercard (or a Windows executable that ran almost identical code) -- and then even shot you back into the browser once you were done. Technically, I could have written my website like that back then -- but it would have just been eff'n moronic (actually I did this to do student testing). Thats exactly the thing with writting a website entirely in Flash will do for you.

Of course there are idiots that will tell you that you could and should -- but in my current field we like to care for the mentally ill instead of kicking them while they are down. Luckily, I don't subscribe to this theory.

BTW Joe -- I've had several years of design courses (and actually taking one this semester -- my employeer pays me to take courses, so its stupid not to). The one thing that any COMPETENT professor has taught us is that design isn't showing off everything you know, but stopping well before you make a fool out of yourself. Your design is perfect. Its clean and suits its purpose. Backwater, however, looks like some eff'n idiot designed it trying to prove that his education wasn't wasted -- yet at the same time proving that it had been. My gawd that made me sick to think this guy has the balls to talk about others design work. Doing a google of his real name, it turns out he is probably either mentally challenged (and I don't think it has anything to do with his nom's mercury poisoning) or 12 years old.

You've been trolled Joe :-)

Posted by: clif | Apr 12, 2006 3:09:05 PM

HOLY CRAP!!!
Onideus Mad Hatter, or is that Hater?
How bout rollin yourself a fattie and chillin with the cool disco sounds of the Bee Gees..............

Posted by: tina | Apr 12, 2006 3:07:27 PM

And yet more ignorance...

>You can't print it

Yup, ya sure can actually:
http://www.devx.com/webdev/Article/9970

DUM DUM DUM DUM

As I said, it's about skill level and knowledge. In the hands of someone who doesn't have any (like Mr. Waldo)...yeah, I would imagine Flash is a pretty limiting option.

>you can't style it,

Um...you can style Flash a whole HECK of a lot more than you can...ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S AVAILABLE. Check out this new prototype for a CB site I'm workin on (only the video and picture sections are up):
http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/

How ya likin them CUSTOM SCROLLBARS? How ya likin that CUSTOM VIDEO PLAYER? How ya likin the CUSTOM EVERYTHING?

*shakes head*

The bottom line is that with Flash you can quite literarily make it look like ANYTHING you want. And if you don't like sound effects, you don't have to use them. There's no Ten Commandments of Flash telling you that it has to be anything more than plain text. Yeah, that's right, you can actually build a Flash site that's NOTHING but plain text! And despite what the .rotard gallery would like you to think, you can make that text selectable, printable, linkable, etc, etc, etc. The main problem right now is that ignorance is being confused for facts, hopefully Taschen's book will help educate all the...lessers.

>you can't make it accessible

Now this truly has just about got to be the DUMBEST "argument" I've ever seen about Flash. I mean, fucking hello, Flash is *THE* most accessible option available since it's browser independent. Flash is so portable you don't even technically NEED a web browser. You can actually even create stand alone Flash applications...it doesn't get much more accessible than that.

>and when used as this joker uses it, you can't link to individual pages.

Awww, you can't hot link to any of my content? Tsch, tsch, tsch, must sure be a bitch if you're LOOKING TO STEAL CONTENT. ^_^

Here's a free cl00 for ya kiddo, if I had wanted to make individual sections remotely linkable...I would have created separate flash files/pages for each section.

Actually...no, I wouldn't have done that. That's what an AMATEUR (like you) might have done. No, if I had wanted to do it that way I simply would have just set it up to accept http post variables and included a very simple ActionScript redirect that would automatically go to the right scene. So like I could use:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/?page=services
"page" being the variable and "services" being its value. The ActionScript would simply check the variables value and navigate to the correct section accordingly. WOAH, Flash sure is HARD...*snicker*...

Do be sure and let me know if any of you spazzy lil tweenage muppet fucks has any more NONpinions for me to rip apart. ^_^

BTW, message to Joe, why are you "cl**ning" up my posts? Were you psychologically beaten to feel dirty as a child every time you hear the word FUCK or something? A word is only "bad" if you use it with frequent repetition and without purpose. I use words like fuck as exclamatory remarks, if you have some psychological deficiency which prevents you from being able to deal with such words without going into fits of self loathing and dejection...perhaps you should seek professional help. *shrugs*

Posted by: Onideus_Mad_Hatter | Apr 12, 2006 2:50:45 PM

WAIT A MINUTE WALDO!!!!!
I don't know beans about Flash but DO NOT dis the Bee Gees. That was just down right mean!!!!

Posted by: tina | Apr 12, 2006 2:08:23 PM

I use flash in some of my site designs, but as the above comment pointed out, I use them for animations. The only other reason to use Flash (imho) is to put a lot of dynamic content into a small area. A great example of this is the simpleviewer gallery.

Posted by: Militantplatypus | Apr 12, 2006 2:07:30 PM

I've been a website developer since this kid was in diapers. I spent a lot of quality time with Flash in the mid- to late-90s. And I can say, with total authority, that it is a total disaster of a technology. It breaks everything fundamental about the web. The only excuse for using Flash is to provide a simple animation that isn't viable as a GIF animation.

You can't print it, you can't style it, you can't make it accessible and when used as this joker uses it, you can't link to individual pages. Anybody using Flash in 2006 is probably still using an 8-track and strutting around to the Bee Gees. It's bad enough that anybody still thinks that there's any merit in Flash but, for God's sake, don't admit it.

Posted by: Waldo Jaquith | Apr 12, 2006 12:57:33 PM

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